Arten anfällig für Kokzidien

[William Astor]

Hello everyone,
Can anyone tell me who has found that the following bird species become sick due to Coccidia or any other parasitic protozoans in their experience ?
Do both the young and the adult birds become sick ?
What is the best treatment in your experience ?
Does anyone give these birds cooled boiled water ?

Übersetzung Versuch Translation Attempt

Hallo jeder,
Kann jemand erklären mir, der gefunden hat, daß die folgenden Vogelarten das Kranke wegen der Kokzidien oder alle anderen parasitschen tierischer Einzeller in ihrer Erfahrung werden?
Werden die Junge und die Erwachsenvögel krank?
Was ist die beste Behandlung in Ihrer Erfahrung?
Gibt jemand diese Vögel abgekühltes gekochtes Wasser?

Gruenfink = Greenfinch = Carduelis chloris
Distelfink = Goldfinch = Carduelis carduelis
Birkenzeisig = Redpoll = Carduelis flammea cabaret
Buchfink = Chaffinch = Fringilla coelebs coelebs

Danke,
MfG,
William

 

[iskete]

Hallo William!

Die Kot von Vögel werden vom Tierarzt untersucht lassen, dann wird die Medikament verschrieben und werden die Vögel sie gegeben. Wenn die Vögel roten Bauch haben, dann haben sie Kokzidiose oder andere Krankheiten. Die Jungvögel von Grünfinken und Buchfinken müssen vor die Mauserbeginn gegen Kokzidiose behandelt werden, sonst werden viele dieser Jungvögel sterben. Stieglitze und Birkenzeisige brauchen keine Medikamente und mausern problemlos durch.

 

[William Astor]

Die Jungvögel von Grünfinken und Buchfinken müssen vor die Mauserbeginn gegen Kokzidiose behandelt werden, sonst werden viele dieser Jungvögel sterben.

Thank you DannyK for the very good information.
There might be a simple solution to this coccidia problem. I have found that water analysis as provided by the Water Authorities ignores protozoa like coccidia and Trichomonas. It is therefore quite possible that the young Greenfinches are drinking coccidia that are already in the tap water.

Vigorously boiling tap water for 2 minutes should kill all the parasitic protozoa and other pathogens. If you then cool the water, you can put it in sterilized glass bottes and place these in the refrigerator. Give the cooled boiled water six days per week both for drinking and for baths and give unboiled tap water once a week to stimulate the birds’ immune system to produce antibodies against any coccidia species that are in the local tap water.

Do you know anyone who has tried this method on Greenfinches or Chaffinches ?
Is there any reason why you think it will not work ?
Thanks.
MfG,

William

Übersetzung Versuch Translation Attempt

Danke DannyK zu der sehr guten Information.
Es konnte eine einfache Lösung zu diesem Coccidieproblem geben. Ich habe gefunden, daß Wasseranalyse, wie von den Wasser-Behörden zur Verfügung gestellt parasitschen tierischer Einzeller wie Coccidien und Trichomonas ignoriert. Es ist folglich ziemlich möglich, daß das Jungvögel von Grünfinken und Buchfinken Coccidien trinken, die bereits im Hahnwasser sind.

Kräftig kochendes Hahnwasser für 2 Minuten sollte alle parasitschen tierischer Einzeller und andere Krankheitserreger töten. Wenn Sie dann das Wasser abkühlen, können Sie es in entkeimte Glasbottes einsetzen und diese in den Kühlraum legen. Geben Sie dem abgekühlten gekochten Wasser sechs Tage pro Woche für das Trinken und für Bäder und geben Sie ungekochtes Hahnwasser einmal wöchentlich, um das immunsystem der Vögel anzuregen, um Antikörper gegen irgendwelche Coccidiearten zu produzieren, die im lokalen Hahnwasser sind.

Wissen Sie jemand, das diese Methode auf Grünfinken oder Buchfinken versucht hat? Gibt es irgendein Grund, warum Sie denken, daß es nicht funktioniert?

Danke. MfG, William

 

[Kenneth]

Dear William,

one oft the main reasons for increasing coccidia is messy water
and environment. What I do to stop infestation of bacteria is to keep the
aviary as dry as possible. I use fir and pine needles as ground ceiling.

I don't know if the proposition with the boiling water will work, but it sounds
very plausible. Once I breed greenfinches (brown and achat mutation) in the molt many of the youngsters died, until I gave a medicine named ESB3, then I had hardly failures.

Well, what I think is, if the birds in good health, they won't easily striked by
bacteria or protozoa.

As Danny reported, goldfinch and redpoll are very immune against coccidia.

Kindest regards

Konrad

 

[William Astor]

Thank you Konrad.
Do you stop giving any baths during the breeding season [zucht]or during the juvenile moult ( Mauser) to your Greenfinches?
Can you tell me how often you change the bath water during the day?
Do you breed your Greenfinches in indoor flights or outside flights [voliere]?

William

 

[Joerg]

Hi all,

we should all try to keep our birds in a reasonably clean and dry environment. This certainly prevents birds from getting ill but there are still some cases where finches fall sick because of coccidia et al. Cause for this can be stress due to a high number of birds in an aviary or problems during the molting period.
I have been keeping and breeding various siskins in the past 20 years and I have always had birds which suffered from coccidia even though I kept them quite clean and tried to avoid stress factors. To cure them I have been using Baycox or ESB3 and in most cases the treatments worked well. I have always given them fresh water. At least here in Germany we have certain standards for the quality of our drinking water and .... I drink it myself...
Just a short story from a friend who was in the middle east to study serinus pusilus (red fronted serins). He said these birds down there drink everything that looks similar to water when they find it ... and in our aviaries we have serious problems to keep the birds healty...
Regards
Jörg

 

[William Astor]

Thank you Jorg for your good information.

Just a short story from a friend who was in the Middle East to study serinus pusilus (red fronted serins). He said these birds down there drink everything that looks similar to water when they find it ... and in our aviaries we have serious problems to keep the birds healthy...

I think the answer to this puzzle is this.

1. Coccidia are protozoans belonging to the family Eimreiidae. Within this family of organisms there are six genera [ gattungen ] that are known to affect finches and many other birds.

2. One coccidian species may adversely affect one bird species but not another. For example, Atoxoplasma serini, a coccidian species found in canaries, is not infectious to sparrows; likewise, the species infecting sparrows is non-infectious to canaries.

So the red fronted serins may be immune to the coccidian species that live in the Middle East but NOT to the coccidian species that live in the tap water of our homes situated in Europe. The solution in my opinion is to provide an opportunity for the birds to become immunized to the European coccidian species rather than keeping on using antibiotics which will not allow the birds to become immune. This is why I think my idea of using cooled boiled water for 6 days a week followed by unboiled water for just one day per week is a good plan. Feel free to disagree with me if you think I am not quite correct in what I am saying.

William

 

[Kenneth]

Hi Folk!

well William, I keep my greenfinches in exterior aviarys. As already written, is it very important to keep everything dry, in particular sultrier-warm weather influences the increase of the coccidia. I don't know why, but it seems that
greenfinch, citrilfinch and bullfinch are exceptional sensitive to coccidia parasitic. Perhaps because they search their food often on the ground.

My birds can take a bath when ever the want to! I change the water twice a day. By the way, I got the feeling, since I start to feed them all with Spierstaude (Filipendula ulmaria (L.) Maxim) during the (juvenile) moult
failure rates kept on being reduced!!! and that without any medicine!

I can not recommend BAYCOX for any carduelan finches and please no medicine just used for preventive!

Thank you Jorg for your good information.

...This is why I think my idea of using cooled boiled water for 6 days a week followed by unboiled water for just one day per week is a good plan. Feel free to disagree with me if you think I am not quite correct in what I am saying.

William

Please try it and publish the results here

sincerely Konrad

 

[Joerg]

Hi,

maybe we should now continue this discussion in English language to avoid confusion.
@ Konrad, regarding the treatment of birds with Baycox I have never had an negative experience. Upon identification of the disease by a vet I have in case of coccidia treated the siskins (red siskins, magellanicus, notatus, pinus, barbatus, xanthogastra, psaltia etc.) with Baycox but I have not given this as prevention. But I must admit, that I treat the entire flock in which the infected bird lives
Jörg

 

[William Astor]

Hello Joerg,
You mentioned Siskin species.
Are these ALL vulnerable to coccidia as Redpolls and Greenfinches are ?
Can you tell which siskin species are definitely vulnerable in your experience ?
Can you tell me what the scientific names of these siskins are in German systematics ?

I have been keeping and breeding various siskins in the past 20 years and I have always had birds which suffered from coccidia even though I kept them quite clean and tried to avoid stress factors.

I experienced the same thing when I bred Gouldians in indoor cages except it was not coccidia but bacterial infection and Candida that made them ill, even though I kept their cages and food and drink containers very clean. I used to use drinking containers that had been soaked in bleach solution overnight and still some birds would fall ill in every few months.

So what is infecting the birds with coccidia ?
Some possibilities are.....

1. The birds are getting ill because of what is contained in their drinking water.
2. The increase in air humidity could make it possible for coccidian organisms to float in the air on very tiny droplets and infect more birds. I am not sure about this though.
3. Disease carriers. (Krankheitsüberträger) You can have a few birds that look healthy but that carry coccidia inside their body which they will shed in their droppings (kot). These disease carriers as these birds are known, will very easily contaminate the drinking water. These birds may also infect seed because the protozoans (tierischer Einzeller ) will colonize their mouth and when they eat the seed they will drop the husk (Schale) with protozoans stuck to it, into the seed container.
4. Bath water that contains droppings from disease carriers.

Using the above information, supplying cooled boiled water 6 days a week should be a good idea. Installing a dehumidifier should be a good idea as well if you breed the birds indoors. This will reduce the humidity to a level that will not encourage coccidia to thrive.
As for disease carriers, these should be the birds that do not fall ill when you have an outbreak of coccidiosis. If you ring the birds with colour rings, it would be a good idea to separate these birds from the rest and breed from these since these birds should be immune to coccidia. Reducing the time that you leave bath water available to the birds should also be a good idea.

Joerg, Konrad and DannyK, feel free to disagree with me if you think I am not quite correct in what I am saying.

One other thing. A good idea is to breed ONLY FROM those juveniles that are resistant to coccidia. How do you all go about selecting juveniles that are resistant to coccidia if you give them antibiotics before their juvenile moult (Mauser)?

Best regards,

William

 

[Kenneth]

Hello Joerg,
...

3. Disease carriers. (Krankheitsüberträger) You can have a few birds that look healthy but that carry coccidia inside their body which they will shed in their droppings (kot). These disease carriers as these birds are known, will very easily contaminate the drinking water. These birds may also infect seed because the protozoans (tierischer Einzeller ) will colonize their mouth and when they eat the seed they will drop the husk (Schale) with protozoans stuck to it, into the seed container.
4. Bath water that contains droppings from disease carriers.

Best regards,

William

Hi William,

I think point 3 and 4 are the main reasons for infecting the birds with coccidia.
But maybe we should now stop continue this discussion in English language to avoid confusion.
Gruss Konrad

 

[William Astor]

Hallo Konrad,

Bitte Antwort auf Deutsch, wenn Sie nicht schwierige Ideen auf englisch ausdrücken können. Ich versuche, zu übersetzen, was Sie mit den Internet-Übersetzung Maschinen und dem Wörterbuch schreiben. Ich kann einfache Sätze in Deutschen mit Internet-Übersetzung Maschinen nur übersetzen.

MFG, William

 

[Kenneth]

Hallo William,

ein sehr interessantes Thema, aber in englischer Sprache wird es für viele ziemlich schwierig sein alles zu verstehen.

Deshalb meine Bitte auf "deutsch" weiterzumachen.

Danke für Dein Verständnis

Gruss

Konrad

 

[William Astor]

Hallo William,
Deshalb meine Bitte auf "deutsch" weiterzumachen.
Danke für Dein Verständnis
Gruss
Konrad

Okay Konrad. Wil I Respekt Ihre Wünsche. Ich habe neue Gedanken auf diesem Thema. Das Problem übersetzt sie in Deutschen. Übersetzung auf dem Internet ist für schwierige Sätze unzulänglich. So, wenn es gibt, jemand auf diesem Forum, das bereit ist, mein Englisch für mich zu übersetzen, bin ich sehr dankbar. Bitte email ich, wenn Sie helfen möchten. Ich gebe dann meine Anzeige auf Deutsch hier bekannt.

MfG, William

 

[Dietrich]

Hallo,zusammen.
Kennt von Euch jemand das Mittel "Kokzidex-Medizinal" ?
Das soll angeblich alle Arten von Kokzidien bekämpfen,ohne aber ein Antibiotikum zu sein.
Ich hatte zum Glück noch keinen Ärger mit Kokzidien,aber wie ich aus den oben genannten Beiträgen entnemen konnte,kann man auch auf "Umwegen" über das Wasser schnell dazu kommen.
Ist es sinnvoll solche Sachen einzusetzen ? Oder ist das Eurer Meinung nach nur ein Mittel,dem Züchter eine Gewisse "Sicherheit" vorzugaukeln?
Ich bin eigentlich eher zurückhaltend mit "Futterzusätzen" und diversen Medikamenten,die oft von sogenannten "Spitzenzüchtern" und von deren Sponsoren angepriesen werden.Aber wenn es eines Tages mal nötig ist.......?

MfG Dietrich

 

[Kenneth]

Wundermittel.

Hallo Dietrich,

habe das hier gefunden:

Zwei Drittel aller Vogelzuchten sind mit Kokzidien (Darmparasiten) befallen. Eine Behandlung ist deshalb, besonders bei neuzukäufen, zu empfehlen.Kokzidex-Medizinal bekämpft, außer Kokzidien, auch Salmonellen, Escherichia-Coli sowie die hartnäckigen Campylobacterstämme. Anwendung: Pulver einfach über das Futter streuen....blablabla

Ähnliches verspricht auch ROPA - B.
siehe dazu im Forum hier nach.

Ich denke wieder ein "Allheimittel" das überwiegend dem Hersteller was bringt :
€ $ ...

Vorbeugen ist immer besser, Tipps dazu findest Du hier im Forum oder auf meiner Homepage.


Gruss

Konrad

 

[Waldvogel]

Hallo,

es gibt auch Leute, die nicht sehr gute Englischkenntnisse haben und sich für das Thema interessieren. Die anfänglichen Threads mit Übersetzungen haben da sehr geholfen.

Gruß, Dirk