Lonchura atricapilla

[William Astor]

In my experience, Lonchura atricapilla, black headed nuns make horrible sounds like soft crowing sounds. Has this been anyone’s experience ?
What about other Lonchura species ?
Thanks.

William

Übersetzung Versuch.
In meiner Erfahrung bilden Lonchura atricapilla,schreckliche Töne wie weiche krähende Töne. Ist dieses jemand Erfahrung gewesen? Was über andere Lonchura Arten?

Danke. William

 

[Munia maja]

Hello William,

what do you mean by "crowing" - sounds like from a cock/rooster or from a crowe?
I never made this experience. My black and brown-headed nuns have very soft voices. Their singing can hardly be heard: it begins with clattering (?) of the bill. Then it seems that they do some kind of ventriloquism (it sounds very low and dark, like the voice from a special kind of dove). They end their song with a trill reminding me of a rising and falling rocket at New Year´s Eve (not the bursting!). The white headed nuns have almost the same kind of voice.
The voice of the chestnut-breasted mannikins differs from the other nuns. I was very surprised when I heard it the first time. It is much louder and consists of different trills. Many people say, that the Estrildidae don´t have nice voices. As for the chestnut-breasted mannikins it´s wrong, because in my opinion their singing sounds very nice.

Steffi

 

[William Astor]

Hello Steffi,

It is nice to hear from you again. Thanks for replying.

what do you mean by "crowing" - sounds like from a cock/rooster or from a crow ?

By crowing I mean the guttural sound (der Kehllaut) that a crow makes. I had two black headed nuns for about 6 months in my free flying bird room and all this time they were silent. Then one day I heard saw one of them slightly open his beak and utter this ugly sound. It was a real shock when I heard it because it was so ugly and unexpected. In fact that is why I sold my two black headed nuns afterwards....!!!

I never made this experience.

I am surprised that you never had this experience.

My black and brown-headed nuns have very soft voices. Their singing can hardly be heard: it begins with clattering (?) of the bill.

I think you mean mandibulating i.e. rapidly opening and shutting the upper and lower mandibles.

Then it seems that they do some kind of ventriloquism (it sounds very low and dark, like the voice from a special kind of dove). They end their song with a trill reminding me of a rising and falling rocket at New Year´s Eve (not the bursting!). The white headed nuns have almost the same kind of voice.

Have you bred these two species ?
Do you find that you have to cut the toe nails of these birds every month or so ?
I think I had to capture these birds once a month in order to cut their nails because they grew so quickly...

The voice of the chestnut-breasted mannikins differs from the other nuns. I was very surprised when I heard it the first time. It is much louder and consists of different trills.

I too have heard that the chestnut breated mannikin has a beautfiul song. Do you know anywhere on the internet where I can download its song for me to listen to ?
I am wondering whether it sounds like a firefinch or a canary or a greenfinch.

Regards,

William

 

[FliegendeHollaender]

Have you ever had other Mannikins (Munia or true Lonchura species) ??
I guess not, because that's the normal song of these species.

It may vary from species to species but they all have a similar 'ugly' song

 

[William Astor]

Have you ever had other Mannikins (Munia or true Lonchura species) ??
I guess not, because that's the normal song of these species.
It may vary from species to species but they all have a similar 'ugly' song

I am well aware of the sounds that Bengalese finches make [Japanische Moevchen ] and this belongs to Lonchura genus. If other Lonchura species make the same basic sounds as the Bengalese make, then I am NOT referring to these sounds at all.

I know what I am saying is hard to believe but I DID HEAR Lonchura atricapilla make a guttural sound like a crow makes.

What really surprized me was that the guttural sound was so loud compared to the very soft sounds that they had made during the previous 6 months.

I had two Lonchura atricapilla birds. They always perched together. I used to sit down about 2 meters away and observe the birds. I remember that only one bird out of the two birds made this guttural loud sound and it was a single note repeated twice or 3 times.
I witnessed this on SEVERAL occasions after these two specimens had been in my birdroom for about 6 months.

I have had white headed nuns, black headed nuns and tri-coloured nuns for several months and only the black headed nuns made these guttural loud single notes repeated 2 or 3 times just like a crow does.

I am completely baffled.

William

 

[Munia maja]

Hello William,

now I will leave for the weekend. I don´t have enough time left to answer.
I´ll tell you my experience with that species on Monday or Tuesday...

Have a nice weekend,
Steffi

 

[iskete]

Hallo William!

Ich verstehe leider wenig englisch. Es gibt kein Lonchura atricapilla! Lonchura = Bronzemännchen (Mannikin). Krimbilda atricapilla (syn. Estrilda atricapilla) = Kappenastrild (Black-headed Waxbill).

 

[RSC]

danny er meint die schwarzkopfnonne!

 

[iskete]

Ach, Danke, Renè! Die Schwarzkopfnonne ist keine eigene Art, sondern eine Unterart von Schwarzbauchnonne. laut Munia malacca atricapilla!

 

[FliegendeHollaender]

Diese Diskussion koennen wir hier besser nicht fuehren weil da sind nicht mal die Ornithologen sich einig.
Die eine Ornithologengruppe fegt am liebsten alle Arten die sich aehneln auf einen Haufen, dagegen gibt es auch Ornithologen die mehr Unterarten machen.

Persoenlich finde ich es voellig in Ordnung das einige Unterarten als fragwuerdig gestellt werden v.A. die Unterart-unsinn wie Unterart x ist ein wenig kleiner als Unterart Y, aber es gibt auch durchaus Unterarten die untereinander so verschieden sind dat es besser waere davon zwei Arten zu machen.
Einige Beispiele:
Zwerg Schilffinken (L. c. sharpei) und Braunbrust Schilffink (L. c. castaneothorax)
Lombok und Bambus Papagei Amadine
Australische und Timor Zebrafink
Schwarzkopf Nonne und Braunkopf Nonne
usw.

 

[William Astor]

Hi Danny and Rene,

Thank you for your comments.
Yes you are quite right Danny. Lonchura atricapilla is an error.

In English systematics the Latin name of the black headed nun is Lonchura malacca atricapilla and that of the black belly nun is called Lonchura malacca malacca.

The English name of the black belly nun is the Tri-coloured Nun.

William

Übersetzung Versuch:

Hallo Danny und Rene,

Danke für Ihre Anmerkungen. Ja sind Sie ziemlich rechtes Danny. Lonchura atricapilla ist eine Fehler.

In der englischen Systematik ist der lateinische Name der Schwarzkopfnonne Lonchura malacca atricapilla und das der Schwarzbauchnonne ist Lonchura malacca malacca.

Der englische Name der Schwarzbauchnonne ist Tri-coloured Nun ( Dreifarbigenonne. )

William

 

[RSC]

hi william,

in german we also called this subspecies "dreifarbennonne" (black belly nun is the Tri-coloured Nun)

an hans,

ja das ist es halt, die gelehrten zerstreiten sich die köpfe und oft ist es dann schon zu spät ... ich verstehe es manchmal auch nicht, versuche aber dennoch soviel wie möglich über bestimmte "unterarten" herauszufinden.

 

[William Astor]

Hello Hans,

You wrote..

Persoenlich finde ich es voellig in Ordnung das einige Unterarten als fragwuerdig gestellt werden v.A. die Unterart-unsinn wie Unterart x ist ein wenig kleiner als Unterart Y, aber es gibt auch durchaus Unterarten die untereinander so verschieden sind dat es besser waere davon zwei Arten zu machen.

Can you tell me what you mean by v.A. ?

aber es gibt auch durchaus Unterarten die untereinander so verschieden sind dat es besser waere davon zwei Arten zu machen.
Einige Beispiele:
Zwerg Schilffinken (L. c. sharpei) und Braunbrust Schilffink (L. c. castaneothorax)
Lombok und Bambus Papagei Amadine
Australische und Timor Zebrafink
Schwarzkopf Nonne und Braunkopf Nonne

For the sake of clarity, can you tell me what the Latin names in full of the 8 birds above are please ?
e.g. what does the L c stand for ?

So what you are saying is that it is better if ornithologists classified the black headed nun and the brown headed nun as two species rather than two subspecies.
Do I understand you correctly?

Thank you.

William

 

[FliegendeHollaender]

William.

v.A. steht fuer vor Allem, in English that would mean, specially / particularly.

Latin names: I will look in the books tomorrow, I don't have time today.
L.c. castaneothorax stands for Lonchura castaneothorax castaneothorax, in other words the nominate form. The L.c. sharpei is a subspecies.

I meant to say that there are two types of ornithologists, one group likes to have a limited number of nominate forms and is counting a few similar species (Black headed, Brown headed and Tri-coloured Mannikin) to one species.

Other ornithologists do have a different opinion, these people consider several subspecies which the ornithologst type mentioned above are saying they are subspies as a different species.

 

[Munia maja]

Hello again,

now I´m back.

Have you bred these two species ?
Do you find that you have to cut the toe nails of these birds every month or so ?
I think I had to capture these birds once a month in order to cut their nails because they grew so quickly...

Yes, I bred both species. I have to cut their nails,too, but not that often. Usually every 3 to 4 months (it´s very much stress not only for the birds, but for me either). I think it´s a problem of all the birds which mainly live in the reeds.

I too have heard that the chestnut breated mannikin has a beautfiul song. Do you know anywhere on the internet where I can download its song for me to listen to ?
I am wondering whether it sounds like a firefinch or a canary or a greenfinch.

I´m sorry, I don´t know any address.
What is a "firefinch"? At least it doesn´t sound like a greenfinch. Some people say it sounds a little bit like a canary - I don´t think so...
I´ve got three male chestnut breasted mannikins: two of them are brothers which sound very similarly. The third one isn`t related to them, he even differs from them by his appearance (a little bit smaller, the colours differ sligthly, I think it´s a different subspecies). His voice is much more that of a "real" nun/mannikin: much softer, but the composition of his songs is the same like that of the other chestnut-breasted mannikins.


Steffi

 

[iskete]

What is a "firefinch"?

Hallo Steffi!

Firefinch ist auf deutsch Amarant!

 

[Christinsche]

Have you ever had other Mannikins (Munia or true Lonchura species) ??
I guess not, because that's the normal song of these species.

It may vary from species to species but they all have a similar 'ugly' song

Ugly??? Ich halte ebenfalls Weißkopfnonnen und finde den Gesang meines Hahnes überhaupt nicht hässlich, sondern im Gegenteil, finde ich ihn sehr schön! Gut, er mag etwas ungewöhnlich und ulkig (wenn wir Gäste haben, amüsieren die sich meist sehr über den Gesang!) klingen, aber keinesfalls hässlich!

MfG, Christine

 

[Christinsche]

I think I had to capture these birds once a month in order to cut their nails because they grew so quickly...

Hi William!

Perhaps you can put a very rough stone (f.e. pumicestone) to your birds' feedingplace. They will frequently sit on it while feeding. That keeps their nails short and you wont have to cut them so often.

Perhaps you can put some reeds into their cage, too. (If you dont have reeds in their cage anyway) That might prevent the nails from growing too fast as well and the birds will like climbing in the reeds, because it imitates their natural habitat.

Greetings!

Christine

 

[Munia maja]

Hallo Christine,

William beschreibt einen Ton, der sich anhört wie das Krähen einer Krähe - solch einen Laut hab ich bei meinen Nonnen noch nie vernommen.
Und "ugly" würde ich den Gesang absolut nicht nennen. "ulkig" ist schon treffender: welcher Vogel singt den sonst wie eine Silvesterrakete?
Irgendwo hast Du die Frage gestellt, wie sich der Gesang der Schwarzbauchnonnen von dem der Weißkopfnonnen unterscheidet: eigentlich fast gar nicht. Aufbau und Klang sind fast gleich. Bei den WKN hört man am Schlusston immer ein wellenartiges Auf und AB (wie das Heulen einer hoch und runter fliegende "Rakete"), die SBN setzen dagegen mehrfach dazwischen ab (ist schwierig zu beschreiben...). Je nach Hahn ist v.a. der Schluss-Triller mehr oder minder intensiv. So kann ich meine Hähne am Gesang unterscheiden, ohne hinsehen zu müssen...

MfG,
Steffi

 

[Christinsche]

Hi Steffi,

Ich hätte den Gesang auch eher mit "ulkig" beschrieben. "Fliegender Holländer" meinte ja, der Gesang der Nonnen sei allgemein so komisch Krähenartig, wie ihn William bei seinen Schwarzkopfnonnen beschrieben hat (so hab ich das zumindest aufgefasst). Das finde ich gar nicht und sonst hat ja auch niemand mit Haltungserfahrung solche Töne bei Nonnen gehört.

Könnte es sein, dass seine SKN krank waren? Bei Kanarien verändert sich die Stimme manchmal, wenn sie erkältet sind und hört sich auch sehr krächzig an! Ich weiß aber nicht, ob das bei Nonnen auch so sein kann.

MfG, Christine