Orange Cheeks, [ Orangebäckchen, Estrilda melpoda ].

Hello everyone,

I am interested in Orange Cheeks, [ Orangebäckchen, Estrilda melpoda ].
The number of these wonderful birds that are bred in England is incredibly low. I think that the sensible thing to do is to use Bengalese [ Japanische Mövchen, Lonchura domestica ] to foster the eggs.

If the first clutch of eggs is infertile, time will not be wasted on eggs that will never hatch. While the Bengalese incubate the first clutch, the orange cheeks will continue to lay a new clutch a week later perhaps. The plan is that after I take 3 clutches of fertile eggs to foster under the Bengalese, I will then allow them to parent rear their own eggs or I will just place plastic white eggs in the nest of the orange cheeks to give the hen a good rest if I see that she needs a rest.

The question is : Has anyone done this ?
What are the problems that are likely to be encountered ?
For example, will eggbinding be a problem with orange cheeks ?
When the orange cheeks hatch, do I hand feed the orange cheek hatchlings for the first two days twice a day until the Bengalese learn how to feed them ?

Thank you.

William

also, da William kein Deutsch kann und er uns gebeten hat, seinen Text zu übersetzen (die automatischen Übersetzungsprogramme geben ja abenteuerliche Versionen des ursprünglichen Textes raus), versuche ich mal mein Glück. Hoffentlich können die Prachtfinkenmoderatoren damit etwas anfangen:

In England werden unglaublich wenig dieser wundervollen Vögel gezüchtet. Ich glaube, am besten lässt man Japanische Mövchen die Eier ausbrüten. Wenn das erste Gelege unbefruchtet ist, sollte man keine Zeit vergeuden mit Eiern, aus denen nichts schlüpft. Während das Mövchen das erste Gelege ausbrütet, legt vielleicht das Orangenbäcken eine Woche später ein neues Gelege. Der Plan ist, wenn ich drei befruchtete Gelege den Mövchen zum brüten unterschiebe, erlaube ich dann den Eltern ihre eigenen Eier auszubrüten oder soll ich weisse Plastikeier in das Orangenbäckchennest legen, um der Henne eine Ruhepause zu gönnen, wenn ich sehe, dass sie diese braucht.

Die Frage: Hat jemand das so gemacht? Welche Probleme können entstehen? z.B. bedeutet das Eier wegnehmen ein Problem für die Orangenbäckchen? Wenn die Orangenbäckchenjungen schlüpfen, soll ich sie die ersten zwei Tage zweimal täglich von Hand füttern, bis die japanischen Mövchen lernen, wie sie sie füttern sollen?
Danke, William

Hi William,

The number of birds bred in Germany is low as well. But in my opinion the reason is that this species is fare to cheap. Most of the breeders won’t try to breed them if the only get about 10 € (if at all) for every single bird.
My Orange Cheeks breed very well and I never had to foster the young usually I get 10-15 fledglings during the breeding season per pair (3 broods). So in some years we have as much as 43 juveniles of this species originating from 3 breeding pairs. We breed them in cages (in our Living room) or in aviaries. As usual the need longer to settle down in a cage. The probably need longer then other waxbills to become habituated to the human presence and therefore mostly don’t start immediately to breed.
And yes the Orange Cheeks are sensitive to eggbinding particularly if the lay several clutches during a short period of time (as described in your plan). So I would allow the parents to rise their own offspring and would not use the Bengalese as foster parents.


Good luck Gerhard

Hi Gerhard,

Wow !!! Your reply has been very encouraging to me. I am very glad that you are telling me that you have succeeded in breeding over 40 juveniles from just 3 breeding pairs. I was only going by the published statistics. To me orange cheeks are wonderful birds. They are the only finches in my birdroom which build nests which are well camouflaged. All the other species build nests which would be fairly obvious to a predator.

May I ask then how you breed your orange cheeks please ?

In particular :
1. Do you mix one pair of orange cheeks with single pairs of other African finch species in the same aviary ?
2. Do you stop all your breeding birds from breeding in Autumn or Winter by separating the ***es for 3 months of the year ?
3. Do you spray a fine mist of water every morning or do you just make baths available for a couple of hours in the morning during breeding time ?
4. What calcium sources do you give your birds and how often per week ?

Thank you.

William

Hi William,

I try to answer your questions.

1.I usually mix them with other finch species (currently Black- and Red-rumped Waxbill, Lavender Waxbill and painted firetails). They usually do fine with other species in the aviary. It was never possible to house several pairs of Orange Cheeks together during the breeding period.
2.I start to breed them in January and more often than not the pairs will stop breeding by themselves after the third clutch. During the non breeding period I keep the pairs together with several juveniles as a flock.
3.Orange-Cheeks like to bath very often (no wonder the inhabit very wet areas in Africa) so there is no need spray them or the nest with water. My bird have access to bath all the time.
4.The main source for calcium are dried eggshells and dried snail shells. Both are crushed to small pieces and are sterilized at about 130° C. The always have access to them. Three to four weeks before laying eggs the geminated seeds as well as the dry seeds are powdered with Nekton MSA (a Clacium /Vitamin D3 supplemental).
5.For raising their young they heavily depend on proteins which I provide due eggfood, mealworm, and other insects.

Good luck with your birds Gerhard

Dear Gerhard,
Thank your for replying.

1. I am wondering whether you have success breeding the Painted Firetails, Emblema picta as well as you do the orange cheeks,
Do the Painteds have a loud or soft song or do they just make calls ?

2. I have built an automatic bathing system for my birds using a water computer. It has been working for 10 months. But I find that my finches are constantly exposed to parasitic protozoa like Trichomonas and Coccidia because of it. Do you have any problems with these diseases in your birds when you breed them ?

Another problem I find in my birdroom is Candida albicans. Candida is a yeast. Yeasts reproduce a***ually by a process called budding but a few yeasts, such as Candida, also produce clusters of a***ual reproductive spores. In my birdroom, I have to keep the windows shut because of the cold outside most of the year. The Candida and other spores are in the air all the time and the birds as a result keep breathing them in. So it is a very unhealthy situation for the birds as you can well imagine.

So I ask.
Do you have to close your windows to your birdroom like I do, because of the cold outside ?
If so, do you have a HEPA air filter that will filter out these spores ?
Can you recommend a good brand ?

I very much would like to buy a reliable air filter because I have to keep the windows shut most of the year because I find that cold damp air makes tropical finches get ill quite quickly.

3. I have trained my orange cheeks to eat hard boiled egg. I use a cheese grater to cut the egg into tiny pieces. I place the grated hard boiled egg on a clean porcelain plate 3 times a day. I have stopped giving mealworms because I found that the birds prefer to eat the mealworms rather than the hard boiled egg. I found that if I gave the birds egg all the time, they would eat the egg every time. I am pleased with this result so far. However, the problem now is this. I have found that African finches start looking for animal protein and germinated seed to feed their young at about six in the morning. If they do not find adequate food at this critical time, they will either throw their young out of the nest or even kill their own young. As a matter of fact, I have often seen orange cheeks have a dead hatchling in their beak flying about with it. I think they even eat the flesh of the dead hatchling but I am not sure. The dead hatchling always seems to disappear from the floor of the birdroom. I just do not know what the orange cheeks do with it. Maybe you could solve this mystery for me.

Now six in the morning is too early for me to prepare hard boiled egg for the birds. If I leave fresh hard boiled egg in the birdroom at nine at night, the egg will dry up and the birds will not eat it when it is dry. Maybe if I mix the hard boiled egg with some cottage cheese and soaked couscous, the hard boiled egg will not dry up. I have never done this. Have you tried doing this ?
Can you tell me how you supply animal protein at six in the morning ?
I don’t think mealworms are vital in making the orange cheeks breed like rabbits. But I may be wrong. Can you tell me what your opinion on this is please ?
Thank you.

William

Dear William
1. Oh Yes, Painted Firetails breed as successful as the Orange-Cheeks. In fact they are a lot easier to breed than all the African Waxbills. The song of Emblema picta is a bit similar to the song of the Zebra Finch, I would not call it a nice song.

2. I don’t have problems with Trichomonas or Coccidia. My cages/aviaries they always have access to bathing water (offered in large water bowls ) as well as to the usual drinking water automates. The water is changed every morning and the bathing water sometimes a second time in late afternoon. Because some of my birds later on are used in scientific studies I screen for parasites (blood, droplings) every couple of months – knock on wood – so far nothing to be worried about.

3. I too have to keep the windows shot most time of the year (it is our living room and I don’t like cold temperatures as well). But in late spring and summer the windows are open mostly during day and night. In the old days when I bred small lorikeets and sunbirds I had some problem with such kind of disease (mostly Candida due to the nectar, or Aspergillus’s due to the spores in the air).Most of the bird didn’t have any problem but those usually leaving at high altitudes had. So installed a lamp (OSRAM Ultravitalux 250W or 500W) which is normaly used in solariums to get a light spectrum which is similar to that of the high altitudes (UV kills a lot of germs in these habitats). I worked out perfectly. The lamp was switched on 2 times for 20 minutes each period and the concentration of germs in the air was much lower after a couple of days. It is very important to install the lamp in a way that the birds can avoid sitting in the “UV-light beam”. They will visit the perches which are illuminated by the lamp for taking a sunbath but should not be forced to sit there because of the eyes.

4. Six a clock in the morning is no problem for me I start at four a clock and provide the fresh food half an hour later. But because I often come home at five a clock pm I have the same problem. Therefore I germinate the millet and grass seeds in wet soil (I use a soil which is manufactured in Suisse to raise piglets they get it as supplemental for mineral supply and the digestion. It is sterilized and hence I have no problems with unknown soil quality). Due to the moisture in the soil the seeds stay fresh until the next day. The soil/seed mixture is offered in large bowls and whiteworm, mealworms, ant pupae (eggs) and Blowfly maggots are added. The Ant pupae and Blowfly maggots are stored in a freezer and ore offered frozen whiteworm and mealworms are offered as living insects. Most birds highly prefer the ant pupae followed by the maggots so they are gone pretty soon. The other insects try to hide in the substrate and manage to do this. So the birds can search until noon until thy find all of them. Commercial eggfood mixed with hardboiled eggs is strewed over the mixture of soil seeds and insects. I will make a picture and send it to you.

I feed very small sorts of millet as well as grass seed because the hatchling most often die if the parents try to feed them larger millet like white millet for instance. The nestlings are not able to digest such large seeds at least during the first week of life.
Currently I have three cages where some of my birds are allowed to breed.

The first is housing a pair of Painted Firetails with three fledglings, a pair of Lavender Waxbill with 5 fledglings and a pair of Orange Cheeks with 5 nestlings.

The second is housing a six year old pair of Painted Firetails with six fledglings (feeding on their own now, I didn’t expect them to breed that successful because lat year they showed some signs of infertility – but a nice surprise is better then the bad expectation) a pair of Red rumped Waxbills – 2 fledlings a pair Orange cheeks 2 fledglings. The cage now is pretty crowded an I am happy that I can remove at least the young Firetails.

The third cage is housing one pair Bluebills 4eggs, one pair swee waxbills 4 fledglings, and one pair Painted Firetails with four infertile eggs.

It is not always easy to find pairs which harmonize with each other. But I prefer to breed my birds in this way otherwise their Life in cages and aviaries would be even more boring.

Regards Gerhard

Dear Gerhard,

> Oh Yes, Painted Firetails breed as successful as the Orange-Cheeks. In fact they are a lot easier to breed than all the African Waxbills.

Great.

>I don’t have problems with Trichomonas or Coccidia. My cages/aviaries they always have access to bathing water (offered in large water bowls ) as well as to the usual drinking water automates.

The reason why I think you do not have any problem with these 2 diseases is that the species which you breed are not susceptible to these diseases. It seems that some finch species are susceptible to certain diseases and some are not. For example in my experience, two finch species that are susceptible to Trichomonas especially are:

Schlegel Twinspots Schlegel's Grüner Tropfenastrild Mandingoa nitidula schlegeli
Pintail Parrot Finches Lauchgrüne Papageiamadine Erythrura prasina

Do you have an automatic water system as shown in this webpage ?

http://www.agselect.com/ED/Features.cfm?DID=11&QAID=3

>The water is changed every morning and the bathing water sometimes a second time in late afternoon. Because some of my birds later on are used in scientific studies I screen for parasites (blood, droplings) every couple of months – knock on wood – so far nothing to be worried about.

I am a bit concerned about you germinating the seeds in the soil. Although the soil is sterilized, yeasts and moulds and above all Pseudomonas which is a dangerous bacterium can breed in moist conditions of the germinating seed. For this reason, I would not use normal tap water but one per cent bleach solution. This is proven not to harm finches of many species. This information is documented in the work of Russell Kingston in a book called “ Keeping and Breeding Finches and Seed-Eaters”. This is how I germinate my seed. I use 1% bleach solution. I leave the wet germinated seed at 21.00 hours and in the early morning the birds have what they like.

>So I installed a lamp (OSRAM Ultravitalux 250W or 500W) which is normally used in solariums to get a light spectrum which is similar to that of the high altitudes (UV kills a lot of germs in these habitats). It worked out perfectly. The lamp was switched on 2 times for 20 minutes each period and the concentration of germs in the air was much lower after a couple of days.

See what you think to this.

I build a wooden box and and line it inside with aluminium foil. The foil will increase the amount of UV inside the box and prevent it as far as I know, from leaking out into the room thus damaging the birds and myself. I then fit an extractor fan at one end of the box and drill holes at the other end of the box. I then fit the fluorescent fitting with the UVC tube inside.

High wattage of 500 watts means high electricity cost and so I will switch the UV light and the extractor fan between 06.30 and 08.00 hours when electricity is very cheap.

I have reason to think that this is a necessary piece of equipment in birdrooms with shut windows. I have gathered evidence that Candida and Mycoplasma spores abound in my birdroom. And if this UV box works, it will be so much better than buying an expensive air filter because it actually kills the pathogens rather than trapping them in a filter which is not only expensive but could actually provide a medium in which the pathogens can start growing if the filter is not changed in time.

>I germinate the millet and grass seeds in wet soil

Can you tell me the Latin names of the species of grass seeds you use please ? I have never germinated grass seeds. Do you soak the grass seeds in the water for 12 hours and then sow in the soil ?

>The soil/seed mixture is offered in large bowls and whiteworm, mealworms, ant pupae (eggs) and Blowfly maggots are added.

So do you first germinate the seeds in soil contained in a black plastic tray with holes ?
Then when it sprouts, take a portion of the sprouts out and place in a large bowl ?
I would love to see some photos.

>I feed very small sorts of millet as well as grass seed because the hatchling most often die if the parents try to feed them larger millet like white millet for instance. The nestlings are not able to digest such large seeds at least during the first week of life.

I would suggest buying some Fonio paddy brown seed. It is even smaller than yellow pannicum millet and the waxbills love it.

Currently I have three cages where some of my birds are allowed to breed.

>The third cage is housing one pair Bluebills 4eggs, one pair swee waxbills 4 fledglings, and one pair Painted Firetails with four infertile eggs.

By Bluebills, are you referring to Lagonosticta rubricata ?
Are the Swee waxbills, the ones with the black heads ?
If so, does the cock [ i.e. male ] only have a black head ?
Do these birds sing sometimes like the orange cheeks ?

>It is not always easy to find pairs which harmonize with each other. But I prefer to breed my birds in this way otherwise their Life in cages and aviaries would be even more boring.

You are quite right. But this way, it also reduces the amount of work cleaning the cages. If you think about it, if you have one breeding pair of birds in their own cages, you will need lots of cages and lots more space as well.

Regards,

William

Dear William,

I agree totally that some species are more vulnerable to Trichomonas than other. We looked for tham at about 30 species of estrildian finches. The species with the highest amount of infected birds -at least in Germany- is the Bengalese although many of the infected individuals showed not reduced sign of fitness during normal situations (with the exception of some blood parameters). The Bengalese were followed by Gouldians which also showed many infected birds most with clearly signs of the disease. To summarize Trichomonas was most common in birds which are often fostered by Bengalese and there was a much lower infection rate in breeding stocks which don’t use Bengalese.
Among the African species Green Twinspots are in deed susceptible for Trichomonas the subspecies M.n. chubby more then M.n. schlegeli. I bred both subspecies for the last couple of years and just gave away all my birds of this species in January. I did not have problems with Coccidia in this species. All the wild caught I bought did not have problems with Trichomonas but regulary had to be treated against Coccidia an E. Coli the same with the juveniles I bred of this species ( I only raised about 30 Juveniles over three years origin from 6 pairs so the database is not very broad) they are very prone for avian pox. This disease long ago whipped out all my Pintails and Bamboo Parrotfinches an Gouldians in three days. It originated from a pair of Vinaceous Firefinches (Lagonosticta vinacea). No African estrildian got sick neither did the Munias and Grasfinches I kept in the same aviary.
Do my birds get their water offered the old fashion way either in bowls or special water cups.
We did look for a variety of pathogens in the soil / seed mixture at the institute we found nothing to be worried about. There are germs but not in concentration which is dangerous for a healthy bird with an intact immune response.
But as usual everyone has found his own solution who is working and I think this is okay as long as the birds do well.
The UV (speaking of the lamp I use, there are UV-Lamps which have such a high amount of UV which are harmful in every case used in medicine for sterilizing for example) is not harmful for the birds if they are not forced to sit there if they can choose their place to roost it is no problem. I also use Arcadia bird lamps as a normal light source but they have only very little Uv but at least the birds see their partner in normal light (with UV). Your solution will probably work and reduce the amount of pathogens in the air but I am not a specialist in this field. I would suggest taking some measurements (1 week before) before and after (1 week after) using the lamp.
We tried Fonio paddy brown seed but it was not preferred against the Mohair- and Manna-Millet ore the other grass seeds neither did it show any effect against coccidia. The grass seed my birds usually like most is Dactylis glomerata, Poa annua and Briza media.
Now our swee waxbills are N.m.kilimensis one of the subspecies without the black head. And yes in the subspecies with black head only the male shows it. Sorry not Lagonosticta but Spermophaga called Red-breasted Blue-bill (Goodwin) Spermophaga haematina- a wonderful bird albeit a little to big so all the other species housed together with them need to learn that this big birds are friendly birds.
For geminating I put the seeds in a sieve and cover them with water (in terms o f pathogens the drinking water quality is exceptionally good in Germany so no need for treatment) for 6 hours (this time span is enough for nearly all kind of seeds) and then rinse thoroughly under a running tap. Then the wet and soaked seed are mixed with the dry soil. The mixture should not be really wet but moist like a good eggfood. After another 24 hours the sprouts begin to appear and I use for feeding my birds. I will try to make some photos during weekend but I have to give a talk on Saturday about the wild estrildian Finches in Australia and will be in the mountains to photograph crossbills, so just send me an e-mail (Hofmann@erl.ornithol.mpg.de) as a reminder if I forget it.
Regards Gerhard
Oh yes one can never have to much space as an aviculturist can’t one ?

Dear Gerhard,
You wrote...
>Among the African species Green Twinspots are indeed susceptible to Trichomonas the subspecies M.n. chubby more then M.n. schlegeli. I bred both subspecies for the last couple of years and just gave away all my birds of this species in January.

If you can still contact whoever you sold your Schlegel and Chubby twinspots to, tell them I would be glad to help them if their Schlegels or Chubbs fall ill. If they want to go to my website and answer my Droppings Questionnaire, I will do my best to help them. Tell them they are most welcome to write to me. I just would like to draw your attention to how effective and marvellous Borax 6X lactose-free homeopathic pillules are in curing Schlegels of Trichomonas. The only time that it may not work is if the Trichomonas has invaded the liver, in which case you will need something like Emtryl, given optionally.

Gerhard, I think that Schlegels are some of the most valuable birds because of their song and the great beauty of the females, which is rare in birds. The shade of green that the Schlegel hen has [ I don’t know about the Chubb hen] is much more beautiful than that of the Schlegel cock. I find it quite stunning.

I wanted to ask you what kind of nest the Schlegels prefer in your experience ?
Is it
1. wooden half open 12 cms cubed nest box
2. plastic half open 12 cms cubed nest box
3. large wicker nest basket
4. small wicker nest basket
5. build their own nest

The nest that mine built was in a wooden half open 12 cms cubed nest box about 15 cms below the ceiling.

>I did not have problems with Coccidia in this species.

I did not either but I do not understand your meaning. If you did not have any problems with coccidia in M. n. schlegeli, how come you say :

>All the wild caught I bought did not have problems with Trichomonas but regulary had to be treated against Coccidia and E. coli the same with the juveniles I bred of this species ( I only raised about 30 Juveniles over three years origin from 6 pairs so the database is not very broad) they are very prone to avian pox.

Can you please tell me what went wrong ? It may help prevent the same thing happening to me....
Can you please tell me the symptoms or signs of avian pox that the Schlegel showed ?
My book on bird diseases says that there are 3 types, Dry pox, Wet pox and Septicemic pox. Is it the one where you have red oozing sores around unfeathered areas of skin ?

>Avian pox long ago wiped out all my Pintails and Bamboo Parrotfinches an Gouldians in three days. It originated from a pair of Vinaceous Firefinches (Lagonosticta vinacea). No African estrildian got sick neither did the Munias and Grassfinches I kept in the same aviary.

Quite remarkable. I have observed the same effect when I had several finch species flying about in the same space and only two of these species, the Pintail nonpareils and Schlegels, would fall ill with Trichomonas but the rest would not be affected at all. Also, only the Schlegels were susceptible to Mycoplasma due to the closed windows.
But I think all are susceptible to Candida and bacterial diseases like E. coli and Campylobacter with the exception of the Bengalese.

>We did look for a variety of pathogens in the soil / seed mixture at the institute we found nothing to be worried about. There are germs but not in concentration which is dangerous for a healthy bird with an intact immune response.

I have observed that finches PREFER moist soil as you describe to dry soil. Have you noticed this yourself ? I think the likely reason for this is that moist soil is more effective as a demulcent [ soothing agent ] than dry soil is. I know this because once I happened to walk bare legged through thick nettle plants which have a mild but somewhat unpleasant sting on the skin. It was hot and I felt very uncomfortable because of the stinging on the skin of my legs. Then something made me go to the edge of a lake nearby and scoop up water and mix it with some soil and then I formed a muddy paste. I then pasted this mud on my skin all over my leg. Almost instantly it felt so much better ! I left it like that for about 20 minutes and then washed it off and the pain had almost gone.

>The UV (speaking of the lamp I use, there are UV-Lamps which have such a high amount of UV which are harmful in every case used in medicine for sterilizing for example) is not harmful for the birds if they are not forced to sit there if they can choose their place to roost it is no problem.

Yes according to :

http://www.reptipark.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/1135

your Osram bulb emits UVB radiation. I am surprised that the Osram worked for you because it only emits UVB grade radiation and not UVC. And even so, you did not have all the air being radiated with the UVB. It is UVC which kills air pathogens but it is extremely dangerous, leading to problems such as cancers and permanent eye damage - even total blindness in humans if it is not fully contained in a protective box. So I will have to proceed very carefully in building the air purification device. What I have to do is find some material that will thoroughly absorb UVC radiation.

I found an American website that sells these these devices at :

www.aircleanerforbirds.com

But they are ridiculously expensive at $596. That is 500 Euros €. Do you know of a German manufacturer that has a far cheaper but equally safe UVC ligth air purification device for birdrooms ? It may be wiser to buy a device that has been developed and tested by experts rather than build something myself and risk getting blind.

I became more interested in UV radiation and found out the followig.

http://www.ciesin.org/docs/001-503/001-503.html

says that “ Environmental photobiologists normally define the wavelength regions as: UVA, 400-320 nm; UVB, 320-290 nm; and UVC, 290-200 nm. The division between UVB and UVC is chosen as 290 nm since ultraviolet radiation (UVR) at shorter wavelengths is unlikely to be present in terrestrial sunlight, except at high altitudes (Henderson 1977). “

This would explain why finch species that live in the mountains can succumb so readily to any pathogens which are transmissible by air in human birdrooms. The level of UVC grade rays at high altitudes is much higher than that at ground level. This means that the amount of pathogens that can survive in mountain air must be really very small compared to that at ground level because I am told that UVC is known to destroy all pathogens. And the situation gets worse when you have these birds in birdrooms with shut windows because of cold air outside.
On page 337 in the book “ Finches and Sparrows” by Clement et al, it says that :

“ M.n. schlegeli lives in Mount Nimba in Liberia and M. n. chubbi lives in the Imatong, Dongotona and possibly the Didinga Mountains of Sudan. “ The book also says that it lives in altitudes up to 2400 meters.

This could explain why these species are so vulnerable to pathogens which are transmissible by air ( bacteria such as Mycoplasma, Chlamydophila, Mycobacterium, Candida, fungi such as Aspergillus and Ergot, viruses ) than ground dwelling African species like Brown Twinspots or Dybowski’s Twinspots.

I am not sure whether avian pox is air transmissible but am I right in thinking that your Schlegel and Chubb Twinspots survived ? If they did, the chances are that avian pox is not air transmissible.

>We tried Fonio paddy brown seed but it was not preferred to the Mohair- and Manna-Millet or the other grass seeds neither did it show any effect against coccidia. The grass seed my birds usually like most is Dactylis glomerata, Poa annua and Briza media.

Do you buy these seeds in kilogram bags from a birdseed merchant or gardening supplies store ? I think you have to be careful that the grass seeds are not chemically treated to deter wild birds from eating them. So you can sprout these grass seeds simply by soaking in the water. I think I read somewhere that with some grass seeds, you need to place them in the freezer for a week to micmic the winter season first.

Regarding coccidia, canary breeders have known for a long time that soaked COUSCOUS will stop canary juveniles from developing coccidiosis. Do you know about this ?
I strongly recommend mixing some couscous to the eggfood when you feed your Africans if you have a coccidia problem.

Regards,

William

Dear William,

a very short answer. Oh yes the Schlegels Twinspot is one of my favorites among the estrildians. In Germany Trichomonas usually will be treated with Emtryl.

My Schlegels mostly build their own nests in dense Vegetation. The pairs which bred in cages used large wooden half open 12 cms cubed nest boxes or “Harzer Bauer” (lokks like a very small cage with an open front).

Cut and paste didn’t seem to work last time so there are a some of errors in my last answer (unfortunately I can’t edit them anymore)!!!!!!

These sentences were written for the Pintails NOTt for the Schlegels. My Schlegels never got Avian pox, sorry for the mistake.

>All the wild caught I bought did not have problems with Trichomonas but >regulary had to be treated against Coccidia and E. coli the same with the >juveniles I bred of this species ( I only raised about 30 Juveniles over three >years origin from 6 pairs so the database is not very broad) they are very >prone to avian pox.



>I have observed that finches PREFER moist soil as you describe to dry soil. >Have you noticed this yourself ?

My birds eat the dry soil as well but yes the prefer the wet soil. I don’t know the reason but probably dry soil is difficult so swallow.


The Osram bulb emits some UVC and UVB as well but it is of course not designed to sterilize air.

http://catalog.myosram.com/srvc/z_myosram03765afb/~flN0YXRlPTMxMTM3MTM2ODg=

Imho it is not necessary to sterilize the air, at least I would first look for the amount of pathogens circulating in the air before installing such an unit. As a minimum you can build an uncomfortable environment for some pathogens with the Osram bulb which helps a lot.



>This would explain why finch species that live in the mountains can succumb so readily >to any pathogens which are transmissible by air in human birdrooms.

This is definitely not the reason with Schlegels they inhabit altitudes from 300 to 2400m and there was no difference between the birds I got from the foot of mount Cameroon (700m) and the east African birds caught at 2000m. One have to consider that this species very often is foraging on the ground and therefore should have a immune system adapted to a variety of pathogens.

>I am not sure whether avian pox is air transmissible but am I right in thinking that your >Schlegel and Chubb Twinspots survived ? If they did, the chances are that avian pox is >not air transmissible.

Avian pox usually is not air transmissible (although there seem to be some evidence that inhaling skin particles may be an alternative way of getting sick) but is spread from bird to bird by mosquitoes or mites.




>Do you buy these seeds in kilogram bags from a birdseed merchant or gardening >supplies store ?

In Germany you can by nearly every grass seed as bird food (for the german readers Fa. Blattner is a very good place to buy special seeds) . They are not chemically treated so no problem.



>Regarding coccidia, canary breeders have known for a long time that soaked >COUSCOUS will stop canary juveniles from developing coccidiosis.

I don’t feed COUSCOUS to my birds. I think it only helps in Canaries because these species is not adapted to high protein diet. By mixing it with egg food it helps to bring the egg food to a protein level which is suitable for canaries. And a second reason for the benefit of COUSCOUS is that it provides Energy for the juveniles easy to feed on and also easy to digest.
But every aviculturist has its own way for success and one should never change a winning team.

Regards Gerhard

By the way today 4 Red-faced Crimson Wings hatched. The first hatchlings for this pair.

Hello Gerhard,

>The Osram bulb emits some UVC and UVB as well but it is of course not designed to sterilize air.
Does the Osram bulb come with a health warning at all ? I have been told by Arcadia that UVC is extremely dangerous.

>Imho it is not necessary to sterilize the air,

You are quite right. It would be stupid of me to sterilize the air completely because that is going to produce birds which cannot cope with a normal amount of pathgens in the air.
I would want to use the UVC light to REDUCE the number of air pathogens inside my birdroom during autumn and winter when windows are kept shut and therefore air pathogen population is going to increase drastically.

>This would explain why finch species that live in the mountains can succumb so readily >to any pathogens which are transmissible by air in human birdrooms.

>This is definitely not the reason with Schlegels. They inhabit altitudes from 300 to 2400m and there was no difference between the birds I got from the foot of mount Cameroon (700m) and the east African birds caught at 2000m.

This is very interesting. So altitude difference does not make a difference to how vulnerable Schlegels are to air pathogens. If that is the case, then the reason could be due to genetic makeup that makes them susceptible to Trichomonas and Mycoplasma. There is no doubt that for the past 2 years, all Schlegels that I have bought have shown a susceptibility to these 2 diseases. Also I observed that for every cock that dies, about 5 or more hens die. The hens seem to be more vulnerable to dying due to these diseases than the cocks are. This could mean that the cocks have a genetically stronger immune system that can handle these pathogens than the hens have.

>One has to consider that this species very often is foraging on the ground and therefore should have a immune system adapted to a variety of pathogens.

The Dybowski’s and Brown Twinspots also forage on the ground. Yet I have heard no reports of these two Twinspot species being susceptible to these 2 diseases. The reason is probably due to genetic makeup. For some reason that I do not yet understand, the Schlegels have evolved genes that cannot handle these two pathogens.

>Do you buy these seeds in kilogram bags from a birdseed merchant or gardening >supplies store ?

In Germany you can by nearly every grass seed as bird food (for the german readers Fa. Blattner is a very good place to buy special seeds) . They are not chemically treated so no problem.

Can you give me Fa. Blattner’s web address please ?

>By the way today 4 Red-faced Crimson Wings hatched. The first hatchlings for this pair.

Very well done, Gerhard !!!
Can I ask how you manage to know this ? In my setup at the moment, the birds nest either high up below the ceiling or in thick dry tall grass.

Regards, William